Pro Bono
Listen to this great quote from U2's Bono:
"The idea that there's a force of love and logic behind the universe is overwhelming to start with, if you believe it. Actually, maybe even far-fetched to start with...But the idea that that same love and logic would choose to describe itself as a baby born in shit and straw and poverty is genius, and brings me to my knees, literally. To me, as a poet, I am just in awe of that. It makes some sort of poetic sense. It's the thing that makes me a believer, though it didn't dawn on me for many years."
I am resonating as we speak. (Sorry 'bout the 's' word mom) (grin).
posted by fatherneo at 11:28 AM
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Hey all,
Bono rocks doesn't he! I saw them in concert this year and one interesting shirt that they sold was a t shirt with all different religious symbols ie: cross, jewish star, muslim, buddist symbols ect... and the top said something about all of them getting along together. For the life of me I can't think of the one word that it had. I know I've been a recluse for awhile. Sorry for no contact. Last meeting had me called to the carpet from neo. I must have led neo to believe that I am in a "rock n roll" church. I have seen those churches as well as visited them. I must say that life in the christian world is tuff.
Say more conejo. About the tuff stuff. Welcome back.
The visual says COEXIST and it is spelled out using the symbols of the three Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam). That image is used repeatedly in the live show.
YES YES! Thank you, that drove me crazy that I couldn't think of the name. Well neo the tuff stuff being that it is so hard to maintain a closeness with God in this world. I was a little skeptical of the faith when I first started my posting, but that was just to see the reaction and get the feel of this room. I just don't have a close feeling to my faith. Apathy, no guilt for wrongdoing, and lack of identity are my tuff issues. The church I go to now is pretty unfulfilling. Do we all go through this? Have I fallen away? I see the world decaying around me everyday with every calamity that kills 200 here, 800 there and wonder how much of this world is left. I should be even closer to God because of that, but alas...
there you go neo, my tuff stuff...
WhIte RaBbiT
Passion and commitment come to men through challenge. If you are bored in the church, you should try men in your life. But I mean men, not andogynous people. Jesus' work on earth was a men's program. He trained a team of passionate subs and they created the church. Nearly all died doing so. Think any were bored?
Get engaged with other Christian men. Challenge each other. Always raise the bar. Never lower it. If anyone lowers the bar on you to make it easy for you, call them on it.
whew...finished with my homework for another week...now I can blog a bit. I had an article about bono taped to my wall until it yellowed and fell apart. I love hime because he is doesn't ry to impress anyone with the depth of his spirituality...he just tells it straight from the heart in plain old English.
JeSsIcA RabBit
ha ha --- just kidding, but if I had an alter ego Seraph...she would be it. tee hee.
Goodness, all this holy testoterone is making me a bit faint. Angevoix, could you pass the sal volatile? I've come over all girly.
You can always visit my place, Ms. Madcap. Testosterone optional.
Fr. Neo, I noticed you changed your description under the title of your blog....very interesting...
It should sound like a familiar script...
What about you, wigiat? What drew you in? My guess it wasn't the circus.
I’ve long since thought that Pascal’s Wager was a weak ass argument and a bet not worth taking given the opportunity cost. For me, believe in God or a Supreme Being has always been easy. St. Anselm’s Ontological Argument or St. Aquinas’s Cosmological Argument (along w/ his other 5) always leave me trapped with no way out other than belief. BUT…the kicker for me has always been what KIND of God?…Can He be trusted?…What is His real nature beyond that of being the “First Cause” or the “Prime Mover,” especially given the plain as the nose on your face observations of evil that can seen, if not experienced, daily. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
I agree with constantine, that belief in God - a Supreme cause is easy. God is a term, the effect of God is obvious. (to me)
Constantine looses me in the middle of the comment. God is the most constant force in all that is. Question if we can trust Him? What is His nature? Those are questions to be asked about MAN! The last sentence gets me! If one knows he is a sinner, and that sin is bad, he would do something to stop it. Would you not? So, how can you ask for mercy if you are going to continue to be a sinner? I see that as a major cop-out.
I do fully believe that if you needed it Jesus would show you mercy, if you asked for it or not! However, it is not said that he does the judging, that God the Father does - so if you really need mercy, go to the top.
Yet, I say you do not need mercy to be shown to you - it is ours to realized.
I speak form my own reality, as does anyone. It's just that I get so frustrated when people say it right but live it upside down!
Gary
PS, I know we were all taught that way, but did HE not say to "put away the childish ways" at some point? To put away the training wheels? To take personal responsibility for that which you can, and must.
Gary,
My previous last sentence are not my words, but the well known words of an ancient hesachyst prayer that I find myself using on occasion, including when I wrote the post in question.
Ok, but why use them? Do they become yours too?
Gary
Yes, they are mine too. Why? Because I haven't been canonized like you yet.
Good one. I did desreve that :-)
I really don't mean to be preachy - I do get frustrated!
I do not understand the approach to sin. It does seem like a cop-out to me - explain please!
Gary
It ain't rocket science Gary.
So is that more cop-out, or is there an explanation?
Gary
Gary,
No cop-out here. I just live in the real world, not Mount Athos. Have you taken a good look in the mirror lately? I have. Have you taken a good look at the world around you lately? I have. Like I said, it's not rocket science. I could summon a theological answer for you, but I don't see how that would really change anything.
Ok, then what do you see in the mirror?
Gary
Gary,
A lonesome pilgrim and all that comes with the journey including, yes, sin, or whatever the hell you want to call it. Sometimes I do the right and good thing and sometimes I don't. Of course, what one person calls "sin," another might not (ask any RC who's participated in the Sacrament of Reconciliation more than only their "first confession"), but I think there's enough common sense in most to know the basic and essential difference.
Given that you seem to be of such high moral caliber, maybe you could answer the challenge Jesus presented, when He said he w/o sin go ahead and cast the first stone, by rearing back and letting go. Of course, the difference w/ me is that I would throw back. That attitude is probably part and parcel of what makes me a sinner (or at least demonstrates the inherent nature of humankind).
Question for you: Do you think we are sinners because we sin or sin because we are sinners?
I am sure there is a lesson in the challenge you speak of, yet I do not understnd it. It seems to me that one truly with out sin would not cast a stone - just wouldn't. In my mind the lesson may be more about judgement than of sin. (maybe judgement IS the sin)
You kind of make my point in saying that you would throw back.Of course you pawn it off as human nature - well, how does that give?
I think Jesus' life was a demonsrtation. How to live, and relate to each other. The chruch says He died for our sins. Yet we are still sinners! How does that work?
Given then that the church believes in sin, and that it is bad, and that we need mercy - it would seem to me that the purpose/goal of the church would be to teach the elimination of sin. To teach to rise above it.However, every Christian I hear of seems to think that we are doomed to be sinners, by nature, yet He died - for what?
I guess it really depends on the definition of sin.
It looks like you need to summon a theological answer for it all - after-all!
Gary
PS, As for my moral caliber, I acknwoldge being on the path of imrovement. I believe, psychologically and spiritualy, we are what we say we are. So, I do not call myslef that which I would not want to be.
"It looks like you need to summon a theological answer for it all - after-all!"
Wrong.
But...in an effort to end this string of silly posts in good conscience...I'll hate myself in the morning for doing this, but I'm going to call upon classical Protestant theology to make the obvious, well, obvious to you Gary.
Justification = saved from the penalty of sin--i.e. "the wages of sin is death" (I'll grant you that this is skewed thinking. It should be salvation from the disease itself, but we in the West like to indulge in a little self-flagellation from time to time in the form of original guilt).
Sanctification = saved from the power of sin. This is the part of the plan of redemption that you seem to not get Gary. You, me, everyone, we are still sinners this side of the Great Divide no matter how much you "speak" your "reality" into existence (that’s TV & radio preacher theology). Comprende?
Glorification = saved from the presence of sin. Basically, the Beatific Vision. In the "golden thread" of redemption this notion is the final working out of our sanctification.
As to Rome, well, she rolls up justification and sanctification into one big pig-in the-poke, preferring instead to speak of the "infusion" of Christ's righteousness vs. the classical Protestant view of the "imputed" righteousness of Christ. Regardless, they too understand we are yet sinners. As for Orthodoxy, well, they don't really have a doctrine of justification to speak of, but instead focus on theosis or deification (God became man in order that man may become god). This last idea seems to be what you are trying to get at, but in a new age kind of way.
Enough said from me. No mas.
Its too bad you feel it is silly to discuss, explain or defend your beliefs.
Don't hate yourself over it, even though you did not get the job done.
If that is the last word, so be it!
Therein lies the beauty of free will.
Gary
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