Worlds Collide
My Mexico trip brought the past and current worlds of Fr. Neo together. It was surreal. As I said below, I grew up in a billingual Pentecostal Church. In Guadalajara I met Anglican believers who were lively and mildly Charismatic in their worship. So, there I was, faced with the Spanish language and Pentecostalesque worship in an Anglican liturgy.
I'll admit that part of me has turned my back on my peeps over the last several years. I was moved to repent for abandoning my people and my heritage. Indeed God knows where he will take me from here.
posted by fatherneo at 3:27 PM
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17 Comments:
This says to me that your role is to serve as a bridge: one foot where you are and one foot bridging the gap to "your peeps".
Say more...
Do more...
Your converging Father Neo...welcome to life on the hyphen.
I love the liturgy and the focus on the Eucharist in Anglicanism. I also think in its best form, Anglicanism has a great deal to offer because it is open to all of what Christendom has to offer, both ancient and Protestant.
I don't think the Sacramental life is opposed to the Pentecostal emphasis of the Holy Spirit. In fact I believe that the life in the Sacraments and the ancient Faith actually is extremely Pentecostal!
Tell me more about this hyphen jazzy.
Do what Morpheus?
Padre,
You commented, "...the Pentecostal emphasis of the Holy Spirit."
This emphasis is what gives me pause. I once heard an exceedingly intelligent Pastor (Calvinist to boot) say that many modern/contemporary Christians engaged in "Jesusolatry." Basically, that the idea of a Triune God was largely absent and at best for many an abstract proposition. I harbor a similar suspicion regarding the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement. It’s pretty much a one Person show so to speak. Expressive emotionalism doesn’t always equate to “experiential.”
I had a brief conversation with my wife tonight regarding what are to her the dreading repetitious prayers that I'm teaching our girls. She reminded me that I needed to work with my oldest on the "Glory Be." I asked her what she thought of this prayer and she said with noticeable disregard, “it's just one of those memorized prayers.” So I asked her if she'd prefer "Shine Jesus Shine." Let’s just say that didn't go over too well. Grin.
Question: Are you aware of any Orthodox Communions that engage in Charismatic practices as would be typically associated with such a movement?
I agree with you C. That is what drove me away from Pentecostalism. 'They've swallowed the dove and all,' so said Luther. What I do like about the Pentecostal 'expression' is their emphasis on yieldedness and the belief that God might actually show up in one of our meetings we call 'church.' If the liturgical churches actually put some stock in what we were saying and had a holy expectation that God might actually come to dwell in our midst, well, you never know. What I think is perhaps the weakness of Pentecostalism and the Charismatic movement is the over-emphasis, not on the Holy Spirit, but upon speaking in tongues. I'm not dissing folks who use that gift, but Paul is pretty clear it is a minor gift (see I Cor 12-14) compared with saying the 'right words at the right time for the right reason' (as Aristotle put it).
Interestingly, the history of Orthodoxy is filled with unusual experiences of the Holy Spirit. I know there was an 'outbreak' of sorts in Orthodoxy some years ago, but I don't know what came of it.
He does dwell in our midst. It just happens to be in the very plain-Jane, ordinary, and mundane elements of bread and wine. He shows up too in the motley crowd faces that adorn the pews and pulpits and alters. The sure and unsure alike I suspect.
I understand what you're saying though about a vibrant faith and yielding to God’s “leading.” I’m sure glad for my sake there’s a Purgatory. Grin. It’s about living the Gethsemane example. Of course, God (as in the Father) didn’t show up then either. It's just that I observe His seeming absence or at best veiled presence almost exclusively. I watch the news at night and much of it tears my heart asunder. I’d like for Him to show up in a way that matters—e.g. the rescue of the abducted child from a stalking predator, etc.
I've read the book of Job and frankly side with the man from Ur in his spirit of questioning.
Just being honest bro. I also appreciate your candor and willingness to risk for God's sake. I appreciate your steadfast faith.
I currently attend a very charismatic, pentecostal, A/G church. One of the things that the pastors emphasize is seeking God, not the manifestations of God (or what you think the manifestations of God are). It is energetic, even frenetic at times, but always orderly. Having said that, I come from a Roman Catholic/Orthodox background (depending on what country you're in). I graduated from a Jesuit run university. I miss the reverence. I also miss the ability to find a chapel open at any time of the day or night. That's my hodgepodge of thought.
WIGIAT,
You said, "the problem I have when these questions arise are I feel inadequate to question why or how God chooses to reveal himself."
Me too. But I do it anyway. Let's say I pretend to ignore the 800 lb Silverback Gorilla in the room. Let's say I repress those questions. What then? Does that mean the questions really go away? Of course, we all the know answer to that question.
Wigat said -
"I was shocked at how consumed that congregation was with the apperance of spirituality rather than the expression of love. I have grown to again allow myself a certain amount of emotional response in worship, but I am still very disgusted when I see people who are so gung-ho about spirit-dwelling and love nothing except themselves and the "spiritual" image they promote."
I am what I guess would be called a Charismatic Catholic. I agree whole heartedly with this statement. It, I feel is a huge problem in "pentecostal" circles. Unfortunately we do not seem to be in any danger of having an over abundance of humility.
But regardless of our failings, and they are many, as I have said before, I wouldn't give up my Pentecostal ways for anything.
With every intention of getting crazier.
Tell me more about your story Fatherparadox. I live in the same world you do. My wife also thinks I'm crazy. Patristic, sacramental, Scripture-squawkin', Etc. what to make of us fellow confused Anglican?
sounds familiar. Tell me about your new parish.
Very interesting conversation thread.
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